Are Disney running out of ideas for cartoons?

I don't think there is a "Disney Canon" is there? If so cool, I'll look it up.

Okay, now I'm confused.

How can you classify Sofia the First as anywhere in the same league as the big budget Disney films?
Granted, I have not seen it, but from what I gather, it's about an extremely young princess who just meets other Disney princesses.

But the issue I have is that it's just a kiddy appeal show, for an older audience, it may not have anything that interests them.
And by the way, the list itself categorizes Sofia the First as a preschool show, that's not my personal opinion.

By "canon," I'm really saying 'crossover'. Obviously some cameos are just amusing asides or fourth-wall nods, but given that there was official approval of Rapunzel & Eugene cameoing in Frozen, it's safe to assume they share a Universe.

I think there've been official Princess crossovers implying that all the main 11 or 12 movies share a basic world structure, and Sofia the First presumably taps into that: when she's in 'trouble', she can get personal advice from one of the official Disney Princesses. Ergo, Sofia is canon with Cinderella, B&B, etc.

Peter Pan, Peter Pan and the Pirates and Jake & the Never Land Pirates must share a universe; logically all the Fairy things are canonical there, too. Does Pan's world intersect with Princess-dom...? Does Once Upon a Time canonise everything it touches..? Will the upcoming crazy Villain-offspring Show merge 101 Dalmatians with the Princess films...?!

The first post here, and the reason for this thread was this comment:

Back during the boom period, I thought Disney had many cartoon series running... [the rest of the Disney TV output] is composed of live action sitcoms...

I was pointing out that there are MANY, MANY more cartoons currently running. At least as many as during the better, earlier years.


What your initial comment seems to have evolved into is something akin to "there aren't as many cartoons currently on that appeal to me"/"the current crop isn't as good as the heydays."

And either - maybe both - of those statements might well be true objectively AND subjectively: presumably both are (more or less) true for you. And that's fine. But Disney as a company and channel is demonstrably NOT running out of animated ideas - they have many animated shows on, recently-on and in development.

Are they as good? Maybe. Are they skewed/aimed towards a different age range/audience? Possibly. But you have to bear in mind the many shifts that have happened: Disney movies typically aim for "PG" rather than "G" ratings now, because market research says that many children shy away from cartoons that they think are aimed younger than they consider themselves to be. At the same time, American (and many Western) audiences still think "cartoons" (and "comics") are ONLY aimed at children, and young children at that. So added to both of those perceptions, plus the near-requirement that there be 'safe' shows for children* and the need/desire for Disney as a company and channel to aim at a young audience (both for educational reasons and for more nefarious marketing intentions), you get a lot more cartoons that are aimed at the younger end of the audience.

It may be a shame that the heyday of clever animated fare seems to have segued into a splintering of the familial audience - perhaps that's no surprise: families don't (we read) watch shows together; audiences are fractured and people are able to tailor their viewing habits more than ever - and that we are currently living in a golden age of 'adult' serialised TV may also play it's part. But the late-80s/early-90s output of (particularly) the US and UK that so many people-of-a-certain-age look back on fondly is a) over, b) great and c) perhaps not entirely as non-childish as some recall. Certainly there were shows like Animaniacs, Pinky & the Brain and Tiny Toon Adventures that still work wonderfully on a dozen different levels; certainly there were shows like Duck Tales and Chip 'n' Dale and Dangermouse that hold up well - but all of those are also clearly a lot more facile and "formulaic" when viewed through adult eyes.

There were shows spinning out of films back then: Jumanji, Beetlejuice, MiB, Ace Ventura, The Mask and (so I learned many years after the fact!) Disney films like Aladdin and The Little Mermaid. There are shows riding the coattails of big budget films now, although much is merely superhero fare that ostensibly re-adapts the comics source material and follows such well-loved heyday shows as The X-Men and Batman: The Animated Series. But those are out there, too (albeit non-Disney).

Also, the best of Phineas & Ferb can stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the height of Animaniacs. Many of the rest of the current Disney cartoons - and live action shows - are perhaps lesser fare... but they DO exist.

I tend to think that the live action 'children's' shows "aren't as good" these days, either. But I'd not a kid any more, and while I can still be nostalgic for shows like Sabrina the Teenage Witch, The Demon Headmaster, Aquila and The Queen's Nose (et al.), it often only seems to be those that adapted earlier material ('classic' books and comics, for instance) that actually hold up - and even those that hold up are still clearly not as clever in retrospect as they seemed at the time. Except Maid Marian and Her Merry Men. Which is utterly superb.



*Not least so certain parents can use a whole channel as a babysitter....

To more briefly address what seems to be your main worry/concern: I think your 'older audience' is both moderately-well catered for and not necessarily as keen on cartoons anymore. They have videogames that are shows unto themselves in a different medium; they have easy access to the shows of the past - far easier than ever before - and they have whole channels dedicated to repeats and new content aimed squarely at them.

The all-ages, multi-level cartoons may not be as prevalent. The all-ages, multi-level live series' may even not be as common. But both are out there, even as neither is as popular any more - for reasons including (but not limited to) familial viewing habits, splintering (and dwindling) audiences, DVDs and videogames.

Is Disney running out of ideas? No. Are they "as good"...? To each their own.


SOFIA

Is Sofia the First specifically "in the same league as the big budget Disney films"..? Depends on your perception, reference points and opinion. But I think it would be safe to argue - particularly in light of various re-evaluations, feminist-critiques, repeat viewings, target audiences, etc., etc. - that Sofia stands squarely with Snow White, Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty as being aimed at roughly the same age range, roughly the same level of audience expectations and whatnot. It's also got a lot more positive messages than many that can be read into those - and many later - films, too...

Is Sofia as good as Tangled and Frozen? Absolutely not. Is there a difference in intent, audience, levels, etc.? YES. (And for all of it being very basic plotwise, the half-dozen Sofias I've seen are not quite as banal as one might expect. They're simple and have basic messages about politeness and kindness - sometimes, but not always, wrapped up in girly-girly Royal Princesses nonsense - but they're better than that might imply. She comes from humble origins and pokes at the flaws in the snootiness of her new stepsister, which serves to undercut much of the "Princess-ificiation" that Disney is often criticised for; her inate 'goodness' (while often overly simplistic and sugary) wins out over many of the bad bahaviours that are seen - and often corrected - in some of the more privileged children. So that's good, too, as far as broad life lessons go.

Though I'm not a huge fan of some of the newer shows, I still feel that they are not running out of ideas. P&F is a very smart well written show, and it can appeal to parent and child alike. I think it may not seem they have a lot of original content to contribute because they are now running three stations.